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LiveStock Returns Tomorrow 1-2PM EST With Some Changes…

Posted by timothysykes on Thu 26th of Jun, 2008 04:16:21 PM

Ohhhh yes, due to overwhelming popularity/demand/chatroom craziness, LiveStock returns tomorrow from 1-2PM EST!

livestock banner11 LiveStock Returns Tomorrow 1 2PM EST With Some Changes...

For those of you who have no idea what I’m talking about it, LiveStock is the first truly interactive real-time financial show where viewers can interact with me & ask questions which I’ll answer in real-time…just a few episodes in, we’ve already had some wild times–there’s the alleged Playboy model Ms. Tayler Delane who keeps popping up in the chatroom (along with 30+ people using strange aliases like “Timmy Jew Jew” and “Jew Jew Jewbie”), the 8-hour marathon episode (click on demand button and you can see the two-part long episode) and of course my first live trade on last week’s episode!

This week, we’re gonna introduce a new graphical feature that I think is really gonna blow your minds…Mogulus technology, baby, it rocks!

More importantly, in the post that we’ll have tomorrow with the video on this site, I want you guys to use that FireFly chat feature (right above the comments) to ask me questions on there cuz they’ve introduced a new feature so I can see the chat history. (or of course, you can ask me questions in the comment field below)

And, also it’s my sad duty to inform you that Chuckieeeee is no longer gonna be the producer, so I need help…any of you guys in the NYC area with film production/online video experience, leave a comment below (still got 1,100 unanswered emails so can’t deal with more of that) and I’ll get in touch with you…that means specifically you interns–over 60 applications, I can’t even remember you all! Good problem to have…god bless what brutal honesty can do for a guy, even if I am a prick!

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  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    Hey, Ben, how soon did you get the email after you did those 7 round trip trades? Was it the same day, or the next day? I haven't got one yet, but I'm paranoid about getting one.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    So I talked to one of the TOS guys. He said you get a margin call any time you exceed 3 day trades every 5 days.

    Therefore, I have NO idea why I haven't had one on my account, but now I'm all paranoid about getting one too.

    He did say there will be a software update that will tell you how many day trades you have left.

    I HATE THIS F'ING RULE!!!!! IT'S THE MOST RETARDED RULE EVER!!!!
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    Well, then, I have no clue under what circumstances TOS gives you a day-trade margin call.

    I've done about 10-11 (3 this morning) this week and haven't had a margin call. I'm not trying to push it or abuse it, it just turned out to be that way because I had a few that I had to exit quickly, and a few where I decided to re-enter to get a better entry.

    Maybe it has something to do with holding more than one position at a time? I usually only hold one position at a time.
  • dude75
    Yng,
    I got called at TOS without going into margin. I basically was abusing to see what the limit was. I traded a lot ($175 in fees in 10 days). A margin call doesn't worry me as I'm waiting on my transfer from Scottrade anyways. I did have a $100 trading loss from over-trading, so I basically think the rule is good, you need to be playing with more $ to trade that much anyways (besides it's just plain confusing to have more than one open position at a time). Of course, if what I'm spewing is BS, somebody me know.
  • DaBear
    Thank you very much YngvaiMalmsteve and getshorty. Your comments have been enlightning.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    Ben,

    I would also agree with you that Mike's hods/lods way of trading isn't the best for a small-account trader.

    However, I do think his premarket hits are awesome for a small-account trader. Hell, if I had got into VEXP when he announced the prehit yesterday, I would've made $1000 - $3000 on my small account...I was looking to take a large 5000 share position in it, but decided to take a look at HTOG instead (which I never ended up playing). Turns out I missed the best trade of the day!
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    I hear you on QMNM. I tried PGOG today and got burned for $150 commissions (only got a partial fill on my exit order and had to put in a lower limit, making me pay another $50 in commissions). Most of my loss was on the commissions and not on the trade itself!
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    So NCEY did turn up on one of my scans. I just missed it when browsing them :(
  • P.P.S: the comment about "taking your head out of your ass" was NOT addressed towards you, YngvaiMalmsteve, but to traders in general trying to day trade excessively without having more than $25,000. That PTD rule is a hugeee restriction for us, so we need to make each damned trade worthwhile. On 06/25/2008, the day that I opened and closed 7 trades in 7 different tickers, I was just making mistakes left and right so that's why I made so many damned trades that day. Evidence of these mistakes: I bought QMNM at $0.027 and sold the position later in the day, losing $100 in trade commissions!
  • YngvaiMalmsteve,

    Thank you for the links that you sent, the information was helpful in my understanding the nature of the PTD rule and margin requirements. With regard to the claims I made, I would have to say that I completely agree with what you said about the flexibility thinkorswim gives us small account traders. I was not making the claim that you advocate a violation of their laxity, but I was only using my having recently received a margin call as an example to show that though ToS is flexible, we should not test or try to abuse their flexibility. In comparison to the broker I used to use (TD Ameritrade), I think ToS is beautiful, but my obsession with trading and my openness to test 13th's intraday trading method led me to trade excessively, which is something Tim cautions against for small account traders. In fact, I have not ever profitably followed any of 13th's trades, though I think he is a brilliant trader. I have only followed the method he and the other greenonthescreeners use by day trading these hyper-volatile stocks striking hods and lods. But again, by having a small account balance, it is in fact the case that I cannot day trade since I will be constantly restricted by the PTD rule.

    P.S. damn, yeah NCEY is a pretty nice gainer. I forgot about and stopped caring about NCEY after I thought I missed its decline from $0.25 to $0.15 (that morning I wrote a sticky note to remind myself to short NCEY but I went with something else instead, since I don't have a huge account balance to play with) and I only re-examined NCEY after having received a spam email about it gaining momentum. Of course,these damned emails only come after it has gained momentum, so going long on NCEY right now would be far more dangerous than shorting it. It might make a good short tomorrow or next week if it starts showing some red. I'm currently shorting a full position of TGC, which also does oil/gas exploration, and given that oil futures at are $140, I might need to consider covering tomorrow if it starts to look like I'll get squeezed.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    Here's more information. Ben, somehow you exceeded your day-trade buying power when you did all those day trades. Not sure how, because the TOS software is supposed to prevent this, but you get a day-trade margin call whenever you exceed your day trade buying power.

    Here's more info:

    www.finra.org/InvestorInformation/InvestmentCho...

    www.mbtrading.com/margin.pdf

    From mbtrading:

    "A pattern day trading account will
    create an Equity Maintenance Call if its account value falls below $25,000. The account will be
    restricted to "cash trading" the next morning if the closing account value is below $25,000. Equity
    Maintenance Calls are not required to be met, however if the account wishes to retain its day
    trading buying power on a 4:1 basis, it will be required to bring the account value above $25,000.
    Once the previous day
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    I don't know how I missed that NCEY breakout. It didn't turn up on any of my scans
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    Also, the only reason I had so many trades on Monday and Tuesday is I had a few that didn't go as expected, and so I had to exit quickly. I'm not a scalper by ANY means, and I'm not looking to do frequent daytrades like Mike or Muddy do.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    Also, I've been in the chatroom, and I am using Mike's prehits, but I will only choose 1 (maybe 2) to enter, to keep me from doing excessive trading.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    Ben,

    I'm certainly not saying that people should abuse or push the limits with TOS, and I'm certainly not encouraging scalping. But I am saying that TOS is more flexible than other brokers, and that people shouldn't be scared to exit a position quickly and being penalized for it in TOS.

    Also, when TOS gave you the margin call, were you using margin for your trades? I haven't used any margin for my trades, which is maybe why I haven't had such a call.
  • Smoke
    I didnt get into NCEY but said to watch it around 12ish in the chat room....not sure if anyone got into it or not tho.
  • P.P.S: Hey, anyone get long on NCEY? that shit spiked beautifully today, might be a good short soon, let me know what you guys thinkkkk.

    P.P.P.S.: Hey, anyone get short on TGC? that thing is overextened heavilyyyy, I shorted it at $2.24 today with just $4500, and I haven't covered yet so let me know what you guys thinkkk. With oil at $140/barrel now, will I get squeezed to death??

    Let me know what you guys think, since I never get any feedback from Covestor members, since most Covestor members are sissyass value investors who can't stop buying crap like AAPL and crying about their V losses.
  • P.S.:

    1.) I misspelled though as "thought"

    2.) When I say I made 7 round-trip trades on 6/25/2008, that means I both opened AND closed positions 7 distinct times.

    3.) Before, when I was only using Tim's PennyStocking method based on what I read on this site, his book, and from his DVDs, I would only open positions on one day and close them on another day, and I was making a cleaaaan +50% since my having started short-selling. I never received any buying power or margin call or PTD rule violation from doing that. Thus: PennyStocking is an ideal method for traders with less than $25,000. Take your head out of your ass, you're not a day trader just yet as long as the PTD rule exists. I was an asshole for abusing the leeway ToS gives us and now I have to pay the price, whatever the hell that price is.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve,

    You know I attend the greenonthescreen chatroom every morning before market open all the way until close, so you know I've been attempting to day trade using Muddy's/Mike_13th's method, which means I've been trading ridiculously more often than Tim's method would call for. As a consequence of my excessive day trading this week (which I haven't even made much on, perhaps $200 to $400/per day), I just received a Margin Call for violating the Pattern Day Trading rule from thinkorswim's Trading Desk. They're asking that I fund my account with an additional $9,900, which is pretty absurd considering I only have $7,000 in my account. So, I'd have to disagree about what you're saying about how lax ToS is about the Day Trading rule, because thought it IS true that they are lax, that doesn't mean one should ever test, push, or abuse the leeway ToS gives us as <$25,000 traders. I got burned today with a Margin Call and they expect me to contact them as soon as possible and fund my account with $9,900 by July 2nd. I don't know what the hell that all means so I'm just going to call them and then ignore the whole $9,900 thing since there's no way I can come up with that money by July 2nd. Here's the e-mail I received as proof (Note: I made 7 full round-trip trades on 6/25/2008, and I have never done that before, before I would make only 3-5 trades per WEEK using Tim's method, so this whole Margin Call crap really teaches me to stick to PennyStocking and to stop trying to scalp a few hundred here and there, it ain't worth it, stick to ideal trades!!):

    Hello Ben,

    Due to trades made on 6/25/08, our clearing house has issued a Federal Day Trade margin call for $9,913. This call is due 7/2/08 and can only be met by sending in funds. It can not be met by liquidating a portion of your position. Since your account has less than $25,000, you can not reuse the proceeds from day trades intraday.



    Do not day trade until this call is met because you are unable to reuse funds intraday.



    Please contact me with any questions.



    Thank you for your attention to this matter.









    Joel Meyers

    Trade Desk

    866 839 1100 ext 3221

    773 435 3221 direct
    773 435 3232 fax
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    OK, here's more from the same site:

    "Pattern day trading accounts must maintain $25,000 in equity to allow unrestricted access to day trading buying power which is generally four times maintenance excess. Pattern day trading accounts with less than $25,000 will have day trading buying power limited to two times maintenance excess. In addition, a Day Trading Minimum Equity Call will be issued in the account. The call will remain open until the equity is raised to $25,000."

    So, yes, you CAN do more than 3 daytrades per week under the PDT rule and your account has a minimum equity call. It's just that your buying power is more restricted when your account is under $25,000. TOS's software automatically prevents you from exceeding this buying power, and protects you from getting a day-trade buying power call and further restrictions on your account.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    OK, I think that I may have found the loophole.

    www.traderstatus.com/faq.htm

    "Officially it is said that pattern day trader accounts that fall below the $25,000 minimum equity requirement should ***consider**** limiting day trading activities to cash only transactions until the minimum equity amount is reached in order to avoid a Day Trading Buying Power Call.

    A Day Trading Buying Power Call (see FAQ 2.7) is issued when you do two or more day trade round trips within one single day and you then in effect have used the unreplenished day trading buying power (by buying the later positions using your regular buying power rather than the unavailable day trading buying power)."

    I think this is how TOS gets around it. If you are below the $25000 minimum equity and you do 3 or more day-trades, your account gets flagged. You know it's been flagged when the "Day-trade buying power" appears in the upper left of the screen (this happened to me back in late April). In essence, you've gotten a minimum equity call. However, this doesn't completely stop you from opening new positions.

    TOS then uses the day-trade buying power calculation as a restriction on your account. This doesn't mean you can't open new positions...you just are limited in how many new positions you can have each day. Their software automatically calculates it so that it doesn't result in a day-trade buying power call. So as long as you don't exceed this day-trade buying power (which the software won't let you do anyway), you're OK.
  • getshorty
    That won't happen steve, you are always allowed to close your positions. When you are over your limit you are not allowed to open new ones, but you can always close your positions.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    This all proves how stupid this rule is. I had a bunch of daytrades on Monday & Tuesday because I took losses quickly *like a good trader should*. I can't imagine what would've happened to my account had I been forced to hold some of those positions.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    Of course, somebody here mentioned that TOS is coming out with some new software this weekend that counts your daytrades...hopefully I don't lose my magical daytrades that I've been getting!
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    Forgot to add that I think Timmay mentioned this once in one of his blogs....how he was able to do more daytrades in TOS, and he wasn't sure why...maybe they allowed it because he didn't abuse margin or something.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    I've never even been close to the $25000 limit. My account is only a little over $5000.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    Yeah, I'm almost nervous that I've been able to do that many...afraid I might get suspended or something....but the buying power keeps resetting in the software.

    I wonder if they found some sort of loophole in the rule that allows for that.
  • getshorty
    Forgot to ask , you sure you have not been around the $ 25 000 limit?
  • getshorty
    Wow, If you traded like that in IB you would not have been able to trade after monday.

    Looks like they are being pretty relaxed with the regulation, since you already had 7 daytrades in 2 days. Hope they don't get audited.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    To prove to you guys how many daytrades you can do with TOS, here's how many I've had over the past week:

    Monday: 3
    Tuesday: 4
    Yesterday: 0
    Today: 1

    That's 8 so far this week, and my buying power is equal to the amount of cash I have in my account for tomorrow.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    I've said again and again, TOS is the broker to use if you have a small account. You can do more daytrades with TOS than other brokers without getting penalized. You're still limited overall, but trust me, you get well more than 3-4. I've done 6-7 this week no problem, and my buying power is at its maximum for tomorrow.

    There is something I've noticed with the TOS day-trade buying power. Let's say my account is $5000, and I buy a $3000 position in something overnight. If I sell the next morning, my buying power sometimes doesn't go back to $5000. However, if I sell the same day, it goes back to $5000. That makes NO sense whatsoever, but I've noticed it do that before. It seems like it's almost better to day-trade with TOS than go overnight!
  • ryan z
    hey tim i sent over a couple maxim style posts for you to check out a few days ago, good luck finding them somewhere in those 1100 emails!... while you're digging/wading/trudging through em i'll keep thinking of good stuff that you'll hopefully get to read this sometime this month lol... sucks to be so popular huh?
  • getshorty
    Wow, $150 / $ 5000 = 3% monthly, pretty hefty fee. At my current level of ability I wouldn't go for it.

    Unless you are already pretty consistent with your profits I wouldn't go for it, 3% * 12 = 36% of your assets per year..... WOW !!!

    I use two brokerage accounts so, for example, I shorted Pdo on TOS today at 35.90 and bought it on IB at 35.20, so overall I am neutral and didn't got a PDT. However this limits me so I couldn't re enter the position I I wanted to.

    In my particular case I found kind of useful not being able to evertrade, while still having more flexibility than with the PDT rule.

    About taxes, I don;t know, if i get positive for the year then I would care.
  • DaBear
    Tim,

    I would like to know about taxes on short term trading. I think I have herd people say things like a 50% tax rate, But when I research it I find that short term ivestments are taxed at the same rate as the rest of your income 15 - 35% deppending on what tax bracket your in. Could you Please shed some light on this seldome talked about but important part of trading. it would be nice to know what I can expect to pay in taxes before tax time gets here.

    Also yesterday I clicked on one of your sponcers links World Trading Capitail, and was interested to find that they seem to have found a lope hole in the day trading rule. Where as you pay a monthly fee depending on how much money you have in your acount 150. to 225. for a 5000 to 10000 dollar acount and you are considered a self contracted "employee" of there firm you still keep all of your profits but get to skip the pattern day trading rule. Of course you would have to be insane to use the 10x leverage they offer, but if you traded with only your own money the 200. dollers a month minght be worth it to skip the day trading rule.

    So I was woundering if you knew anything about this compony like are they trust worthy? I wouldnt expet you to answer this question on LiveStock Because I know you wouldnt want any of the newbies to lose threre asses (literaly) trying to use that kind of leverage, but any commens left here would be aprecated.

    Thank you
    DaBear
  • Hey Tim, I have been checking out microcapmarkets.com, otcbb.com and nasdaq.com outside of timothysykes.com of course!
    Are these sites good to be checking as well? Obviously I know nasdaq.com is.

    Thanks!
  • CHARTS CHARTS CHARTS!!!

    Wow, I don't recall mentioning anything about being a value investor, but anywyay!!!
    Just giving you are hard time getshorty!
    Anyone play VEXP from TIM alerts this morning?
  • getshorty
    Tim knows I mean no disrespect, just wanted my answer and got a good one.
  • trainerdave
    URRE what do ya think guys another morning spike or no.
  • YngvaiMalmsteve
    PDO today is a perfect example why I now have the saying, "In Charts I Trust"
  • let anybody talk to anybody whatever they want, we're traders here not sissy value investors
  • PDO is manipulated...boo hoo it went up when oil went down and vice versa...its due to earnings, short squeezes and technical breakouts...only down now cuz of Citron...none of it very predictable unless u just stay short for a few months and bet that oil wont keep surging
  • Getshorty... how dare you talk to TIM that way!
  • getshorty
    I am not talking about oil, am talking about blatantly manipulated PDO. Top for PDO because oil went up and pdo went down. PDO built its momentum on rising oil prices and now the oil tide is no longer rising pdo boat.
  • who gives a shit about oil, its a friggin guessing game...focus on predictable stock manipulation...this is why i ignore all these popular topics
  • getshorty
    Today Oil hit a new all time high of $ 140 and pdo ended up lower? Did somebody said top?

    Not so fast, at least wait for the $ 30 breakdown.

    Any takes on this divergence? (I love to throw in fancy terms)
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