CHATROOM

How To Short Sell Stocks: Why It’s So Important To Trade Scared And Use Protection

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Early morning, reserved shares in 3 hard-to-borrow stocks, all multi-day runners, COIN, WSCI and REED. Since I typically do better with low priced stocks, I focused all my attention squarely on REED…mistake #1 (today’s only its 2nd big up day, not 3rd or 4th when its infinitely more likely to run out of steam) WSCI and COIN both took nice morning dips (though neither ideal WSCI just made a massive cup and handle and COIN, well, it’s COIN, enough said)…missed ‘em both since my 3 screen monitor busted and I’m on a laptop

TIM Lesson: Either use multiple trading screens miss simultaneous opportunities, the more screens the better…up to a point

screens

In the first hour of trading, I considered shorting at $3.89—solid big sell orders padding me above—but all the trades were buys and a morning squeeze was possible…10 min later the squeeze was on and once it took out $4, it went straight to $4.50…I thought $4.50 would hold (yesterdays high) so I shorted 1,000 at $4.39 with the goal of buying into a quick reversal around $4.

But $4.50 didn’t hold and as it went to $4.60, then $4.70, I was annoyed but not angry nor concerned…this is a true POS stock with lots of bitter shareholders (as evidenced by yesterday $1 drop off its highs) so if it kept going, I’d just double up…but over the next few hours, big sell orders padded $4.40-$4.50, only thing stopping a big drop were some buy orders at $4.30…gradually those got taken out and when it was $4.07 x $4.10, buyers quickly ate shares up at $4.08, so I thought about covering…but my greedy little Jew mind said no, that’d only be $270-ish profit after commissions, not gonna take me over $17k. I’d wait to cover this time around—to get some big profits under $4

TIM Lesson: With these illiquid little things, you gotta take your profits and run, the spread alone can kill you not to mention the risk of any squeeze

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong way to think about it. You think REED cares whether I get over $17k, no, you take your 7% profit and move on. Idiot. I deserved to lose on this trade, only an idiot listens to ego over price action…bounce back up to $4.30-ish but I knew I’d have another shot at covering low…so I put my limit at $4.11—unfortunately showing 1,000 shares to buy right above a proven buyer just attracts more buyers (one advantage of having a non-online discount broker is you can mask your orders, showing only a fraction of the true amount)—and didn’t get it as other buyers came in at $4.12, and $4.13.

It bounced to $4.40, dropped again, but I still didn’t get my cover, frustratingly so, welcome to illiquid stocks…bounced again, buyers look determined so I tried covering half at $4.35, got 400 executed, saved 600…reduced my risk…still plenty of big sellers all between $4.40-$4.50…with my remaining shares, I was perfectly willing to risk a $60 loss (600 shares x worst case $4.50 exit minus my $4.39 entry) to risk it not breaking out and me covering at $4.11 (which would be $170 gain). After all, surprising strength aside, the buyers on the bid were few and far between, if we took out one, it’d drop 10 cents, one more, another 10…also helped that tomorrow would be the third day of the runup, aka very tough to stay green.

Less than 1,000 shares traded later, the bid dropped from $4.35 to $4.14—signaling the strength was temporary. Still couldn’t cover on the bid, buyers in the teens look steady so I covered at $4.26, $65 total gain…not a bad trade, with all the big blocks protecting above, I’d either make a little or a lot, made a little.

reed

Stock finished with even more surprising strength in the $4.40 range, methinks / mehopes we get another squeeze tomorrow…same strategy, maybe even buy some on strength first and then turn around and flip it, we’ll see, price action not ego based trading, remember, remember or your account will be dismember-ed

Posted in Safe Trades, TIM Lessons

  • Noname

    What a douchebag you are man….Godamn….

    I need to give you some points though, for selling “educational” crap to the idiots on here…

  • JJ

    Glad I went w/ you thoughts on BPAX when it was trading around $3.94. I held back and I’m glad I did! Better opportunities out there! Thanks!

  • Tony Rambone

    Tim, baby, you are the man. No one gives a better description of their trades than you. This is the type of thing I’d like to see in your website. Detailed descriptions of your trades as I voted for.

    This is the only blog I come to everyday hoping you made a trade. Can’t wait till you get to the 25K mark. We’ll see the Timmy of old start teaching the experts first hand what a real pro can accomplish on an all cash account not leveraged 32-1.

  • ryan z

    hey tim just wanted to take time to thank you for the “educational crap” that you’ve taught me through your book/site. i made $1200 monday off BSC after checking your site first thing in the morning, and haven’t made a bad trade since you advised me about AAPL back in Jan… your strategy does work (regardless od what some say), you just need some balls to go along with the know how. i think we can all figure out what qualities someone who posts under “Noname” lacks. ill see you at 17k soon!

  • leo00o83 (Amir)

    Hey Tim, thanks for posting your trades in such detail.

    About the liquidity issue, why trade something so illiquid? aren’t you afraid of the horrible spreads on such tight profit targets?

    and if you just have to trade stocks like these some days why not scale in if you want to place such a large order relative to the daily float? (in this case around 3%)

  • Evan

    Tim,

    When can we short ASTI?

    U da man!

  • timsykes

    thanks guys, even noname (considering how you fail to back up any of your “commentary”)

    REED I believe is no different than other illiquid runners like SHZ, DARA and VION (the last which is now 45 cents below my “decent” cover LOL) just gotta wait til the momo runs out, hopefully it can have a super friday squeeze…(scaling in and out is what i usually do but not with TOS commissions in relation to my capital right now)

  • Noname

    Tim, I want to thank you for great and creative use of multiple personalities. You advertising affiliates should discount your traffic by 80% since that much of it is you trolling the blog.

    As far as the “educational” crap, I wonder who in their right mind is taking your shit for granted…momo? Dude that was the raging bull of 1999…

    Grow up, smell the coffee, and realize that you were a monkey who had a BUY button to press on during a wave of stock market profits…

    Things have changes now, and the market is sophisticated…much more sophisticated than the idiots buying your CDs…and paying restocking fees…haha

    Cheers!

  • http://www.geekrolling.com Anonymous

    I applaud you for calling yourself out on ego trading. You really are sincere about transparency!

  • ViciousChicken

    Tim, look on the bright side, you had a $65 up day (you ever play the stock market, on REED?), on a stock I happened to notice, but have yet to play. whereas I had a $110 loss, cause I’m a moron (but I’m learning.. I think…)

    I somehow had it in my head that TMA was going to have positive news about their liquidity issues today, thereby pushing this volatile stock up 30% or more. Nevermind the fact that I know nothing about this sector, or could find any news supporting my hypothesis, I just figured I’d let 1000 shares ride. I got in at $1.57 (another dumb mistake I wont outline here to try and keep this brief) and set my stop loss at .15. I went back to work (yeah, I have a day job, which really interferes with day trading).

    Now a bit of background you may find interesting- I’ve followed the market for about ten years and have focused on the sector I’m comfortable with- technology. I had some money in before and did well, but for reasons I won’t get into I needed access to said funds. Fast forward ten years to about a month and a half ago, and I’m looking at AAPL thinking of how much my investment would be worth if I still had it, and thinking there is no way it should be selling for under $120. I decide to do something unlike me, and take a 0% offer on a credit card (I’m not hurting that bad for cash, but it’s free money for a few months) and throw 6k into a margin account. I managed to snag my 100 shares of AAPL for under $120, and life was good…

    Fast forward a week or so, and I start to look at other stocks I’ve been watching and seeing similar opportunities.. I grab another 4k and throw it in the mix. I grab some other stocks right where I want in, and sit back. Happy.. Then I start getting itchy.. I see AAPL moving up and down and think I can take advantage of the situation.. Here comes the lesson to anyone bored enough to have made it this far- STAY DISCIPLINED! Had I stuck with my plan, life would be much better right now..

    I decide I think AAPL is going to drop back down after it climbed to $122.6, so I sell off all 100 shares. The next day I don’t like the way things are looking, and get nervous thinking I made a fool mistake trying to scalp on a stock I planed on holding long, and so I buy back in at $123.8. Hey, I didn’t really lose anything, I just missed a bit of opportunity (at least that’s what I keep telling myself). Oh, and it did dip back down to $120 again a few days later, just to twist the knife..

    Fast forward another few days- I’ll never make that mistake again! (gotta stay disciplined!), and AAPL is moving in a pattern I think I can profit from. I sell off all 100 at $126.8 and wait. Next day I get that same feeling like AAPL is going to keep moving up towards $160 (my 6 month target) without me, and I get scared.. Time to jump back in at $130.6, but this time I only grab 75 shares…

    Another small 25 scalp of AAPL later, and we’re back here to March 27th.. I take a look at the market and see AAPL tanking. I’ve only got 50 shares, and want back in on the 50 I so stupidly let go. I see TMA moving a bit low, but still no news. I adjust my stop which ends up at about $1.48 for the day and keep watching AAPL.. Instead of just setting a simple stop market at $140 to grab the 25 shares I planed on, and watching TMA, I kept watching AAPL, mesmerized like a moth to the flame.. I grabbed 25 shares of AAPL around $140.46, about the same time my stop trigged on TMA (causing the $110 loss), which I should have lowered.. TMA is at about $1.68 after hours (a potential gain of $100) today…

    I’m still up about $1500 on a little over a month in spite of myself (it’s probably more like $1000 after taxes, margin interest and commissions), thought it should be closer to $2500 had I stayed disciplined…

    Let this be a lesson to you kids out there- Stay Disciplined! Oh, and never waste 4 minutes of your life reading shite I post.

    PS- to all the haters out there, what’s not to love about the under dog story? Tim, I hope you do it again.

  • Frank Tudor

    Wow that first poster was a duchebag bro and he didn’t even leave his name, number and address for you to mail a tall stack of meat-eater feces in a nicely gift wrapped box to his house and call his mom a cock whore. Some people these days, I swear. Anyways thanks for the great post keep up the good work and make shit loads of cash.

  • http://simpletrader.wordpress.com/ Steven

    Hi Tim

    I have just started my financial blog (http://simpletrader.wordpress.com/). Hope you and your readers find it useful.

    Steven

  • Farsighted

    Tim, got a kick out of your multi-monitor picture, but I dragged the photo on my desktop to send to someone and he told me there was something interesting in the top right of the photo…. on the distraction monitor… might wanna re-crop.

    LOL!

  • silentmax

    hi tim you are a douchbag wahahhahahahhahahah

    haters hate.

    keept it going man your doing well.

  • lmsmith

    Tim… How could you had missed COIN? I stated yesterday early enough to short the POS, you had time….

  • timsykes

    Uhhhh I see COIN up 70 cents premarket on 5k traded, I hate shorting that stock

  • lmsmith

    Yeah, I wouldn’t hold a coin short over night- that morning spike is serious

  • AjedrezMan

    Love the site! How do you reserve shares for hard to borrow stocks and what stock scanner would you recommend that I can get for free? Thanks man, keep up the good work.

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com/2008/03/30/how-to-make-8-returns-before-lunch/ How To Make 8% Returns Before Lunch | Timothy Sykes – Stock Trader, Author, Entrepreneur

    [...] I noted on Thursday, REED is my ideal kind of play

  • scrillawill

    just bought VPHM looks like a great swing trade

  • AdamN

    Covered ZAGG at $6.20 as well $75 profit on 500 shares.

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    kinda disappointing adam, huh? given the overall market’s morning dump, i thought we had a great shot at taking out $6 stop losses on the way to 5.5ish….maybe next week

  • davy917

    scrilla in at 6.82

  • nifri

    Covered ZAGG for -$20 @ 6.30.

  • parabol64

    Covered CHINA @2.62, couldn’t bare to watch it anymore. And with earnings monday AH, best to leave this POS alone.
    I really need to start taking bigger positions. Made $50.

  • hirohyoto

    BOUGHT 500 VPHM @ 6.8394

  • davy917

    just got emails for china and zagg

  • be the ball

    yeah, was watching for a reentry on ZAGG with the market tanking, but nothing..oh well, next time

  • glv

    RTK breaking out, I took my profit too soon

  • glv

    RTK long +$70

  • thunderhead51

    Covered CHINA at 2.59. $106 profit. Thanks Tim!

  • parabol64

    CLNH promoted from .25 to .50 now

  • BearNine

    NAVI possible breakout if it can hold above the 2 dollar range today, may be a buy on monday.

  • Yngvai

    I was short ZOOM overnight from 3.90. Then got a message from Cy Group today that ZOOM is on the FTD list and I was forced to cover at the offer of 4.19 and took a hefty loss. Now it’s red :(

  • AdamN

    Yes ZAGG is being stubborn Tim, but I’m still holding my CHINA short which is looking good today, took out $2.60!

  • BearNine

    I also covered for a huge loss, the stock is very illiquid, what is FTD yngvai?

  • Yngvai

    FTD = failure to deliver. It’s basically on a cannot-short list today.

  • Toh

    check out grrf

  • hirohyoto

    I don’t know what I’d do with GRRF

  • davy917

    hiro you still in VPHM?

  • TerranFirebat

    Bought GROW at around 12.82.. seems to be basing and the spread is tight right now, very speculative buy so my patience will be thin.

  • hirohyoto

    davy917 I sold a few mins ago to potentially get into a GRRF breakout but it fizzled.

  • avoigt_2000

    ZAGG is highly rated by IBD though…

  • davy917

    Anyone know if the day trade rule is strictly 5 business days or the week? As in if I make my 3rd day trade today will Monday be within my 5 business days or will Monday reset my day trade limit?

  • Jeff Moates

    Covered $CHINA short for 3.73% gain after commissions at 2.5697.

  • jerry1213

    davy, 5 business days. Not the week.

  • hirohyoto

    is GRRF at a cup and handle setup?

  • ChatSucks

    bought mesa 5k @ .2167

  • hirohyoto

    MESA looks good but I bought 1000 GRRF @ 6.05… I have faith it’s a cup and handle when looking at the candlestick chart…. going to cut if it goes below 5.80 – I feel the real breakout is coming… they had serious profit.

  • hirohyoto

    if anyone wants to follow me on twitter I am http://twitter.com/hirohyoto

  • jimmyiq

    Tim, no joke, many kids in Beijing have symptoms of lead poisoning. From a smelting factory or something like that?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090814/ap_on_re_as/as_china_lead_poisoning;_ylt=Ahwvt8PtFN6AxVApnl.Qff10fNdF

  • Chris

    GRH has been looking awesome today

  • Toh

    bought 250 GRRF @ $5.91

  • Toh

    hirohyoto, are you puting your stop loss at $5.80?

  • jchahboune

    shorted 1000 of china at 2.54, broke 2.55 support, next support at 2.4, could be a nice little scalp.

  • hirohyoto

    yes – and I sold at 5.90 to cut losses quickly -157.62

    Should have bought GRH =)

  • jchahboune

    GPOR just broke 7.82 support, shorted 300!

  • parabol64

    Man, like I said, I should increase my position sizes – I shorted GPOR this morning @7.99 once it demonstrated it couldnt hold above 8, but only 200 lousy shares.
    It’s @7.80 now, further downturn potential if it breaks 7.75.

  • wallie123

    bought GRH at $2.26 only got a partial fill and didn’t want to chase so i canceled my order. made about 80 bucks on it when i sold at $2.62. left so much on the table though, but money is money.

  • hirohyoto

    SHORT GPOR 500 @ 7.81

  • jimmyiq

    I keep reading advice NOT to add to a losing position. What do u guys think? I thought it was called “position sizing”.

  • parabol64

    Hope you’re not shorting it based on my comment there hirohyoto …

  • jchahboune

    shorted another 300 of GPOR.

  • jchahboune

    That EDGXb who is constantly showing 100, is blatantly a massive pegged buyer on the bid (He was there at 7.8 too).

  • jimmyiq

    hirohyoto, where did u find shares of GPOR to short. And, if sogotrade, do u think they are better than thinkorswim for finding shares to short?

  • hirohyoto

    I found GPOR at think or swim actually. I think sogo is way better for shorts… but you can’t do premarket of after hour trading with regular sogo – you have to pay more for sogo elite… also they don’t touch pink sheets and some OTC stocks which made me mad… so I think it’s best to keep both just in case… the real gem seems to be interactive brokers… and apparently they have shares to short because you HAVE to have 10,000 to have an account there… so we poor people are locked outside the golden gates of shares to borrow =(

  • wallie123

    bought MESA at .221ish area and sold at .25ish area for a profit of about $50 bucks

  • jimmyiq

    Yeah, $10, 000 sounds like a good goal to try for. Thanks man. I haven’t posted any of my trades – been locked out of Scottrade for being a pattern day trader. then, it takes them 3 days to switch it over to a cash account. I’ll be joining you at one of the other brokerages soon. (Not IB since I’m too poor, like you say.)

  • jimmyiq

    ZAGG sinking……… 5.95

  • jchahboune

    I think ZAGG is no longer shortable though?

  • jimmyiq

    right jchahboune, Scottrade says “Unable to enter the order because to sell a stock short, the stock must be marginable.”

  • BearNine

    zagg down 8% and falling….

  • hirohyoto

    Don’t feel bad Jimmy… I’m too poor as well and in debt… but I’m up about 400% since march ’09… 300% since I got with Tim… so, we’ll both be at IB in no time.

    I am still kicking myself for buying CIT monday at 1.20 2500 shares and selling in fear tues at 1.18 for a 100ish loss… when it surged to 1.53 a few days after and I missed almost a 1000$ profit =(

  • bill

    too bad I covered ZAGG too early. left 1200 on the table.

  • hirohyoto

    oh yes… and missed LDSR which surged almost 10000% in 6ish days.

  • hirohyoto

    GPOR looks like a short squeeze

  • hirohyoto

    I can’t cover – ToS won’t let you do more than 5 day trades… lol so you just have to take in the A$$

  • hirohyoto

    I can hope to average up and not see a spike monday.

  • TerranFirebat

    grow is strong could spike monday built a nice cushion today might hold long term

  • parabol64

    Covered GPOR @4.80 for a whopping $20
    Shorted CBOU @7.40. Target low 7s, stoploss 7.50+

  • scrillawill

    up 225 on VPHM still holding nice close at the end of the day hopefully it gaps up monday to above 7.00

  • jspmedia

    covered Zagg at $5.70 .. $430 profit…

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    nice JSP, i’m just waking up, kinda pissed i played it so safe…but hen again, this is why i’m a newsletter writer, not a hedge fund manager…good ideas, not so great execution due to my being a castrated choir boy

  • be the ball

    Tim,

    sorry to hear you are a bit sick. rest up this weekend…..

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