CHATROOM

Lack Of Patience And Discipline Causes Trading Losses

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TIM $15,470 Down $115

Despite me being so gung ho telling people not to short Converted Organics (COIN) all day yesterday, I saw the fluff news this morning coupled with a lack of incredible volume, so I shorted 300 shares at $13.50, thinking it didn’t have enough juice to break the key $14 price. Now this is what a trading addict does—sets rules and break them.

In my post last night, I stated clearly:

“Ideal trade for newbies would be to buy on a clean breakout on strong volume—think 5million+, everything else is just small moves that can easily reverse.”

Well, that was a good call because it was wrong of me to short, win or lose, I didn’t have the odds on my side, and within a half hour, I covered my shares at $13.85, for a stupid $100 loss. I was right to cover in that it went all the way up to $14.30, wrong in the sense that that breakout failed, as it’s now back down to $13.45.

Again, look at what I said last night, we got a clean breakout past $14, but the 3 million share volume is weak, so we’re getting small moves back and forth. From here, who knows, the pattern isn’t perfect so there’s little predictability. I’ve seen enough of these to know what I’m talking about, now I just gotta work on my patience.

“The only time I really ever lost money was when I broke my own rules.”


“Throughout all my years of investing I’ve found that the big money was never made in the buying or the selling. The big money was made in the waiting.”

-Jesse Livermore

Every time my impatience gets the best of me, I’ll post these quotes. That way when I make these mistakes—as I inevitably will again—you’ll at least benefit!

Posted in 101bad, Bad Trades, Impatience, Polls

  • timsykes

    Short 500 SHZ at $8.43, betting that somebody takes out that last big buy block at $8.35 and it retests $8 today or tomorrow, ideally taking out $8

  • timsykes

    within 15 minutes, takes out $8, now $7.80, beautiful crack of sideways price action, still up 100% in 2 days, i want more!!!

  • ETQT

    do you have a heavy short bias on SHZ?

  • timsykes

    SHZ is the latest crap penny stock tp be pumped up. gotta watch out for spikes but i’m comforted by the big bloc sell orders around $8. if it cracks $7.70 area, could easily go down to $7 and below, remember it was just $4 the other day

  • Davey

    Great trade, looks like you’ve finally figured how to make consistent money with a small account and less frequent trading…keep it up

  • Dan

    Tim you are missing out on agix nice move today. Look at the volume . Looks like you are doing pretty good on shz

  • timsykes

    Covered my SHZ + 75 cents/share, $400. just gotta wait for those perfect charts. memorize, up 50% 2 days in a row, no news, sketcky company, negative on the third day, cracks sideways price action, rinse and repeat

  • timsykes

    Heads up on DARa, hopefully it’s a multiday runner like sHZ!

  • Davey

    Tim,

    Keep an eye DARA, not seeing any news, up over 100% now.

  • Davey

    I’m keeping an eye on it, these bio techs usually have more than a day in them, just like I DMI, we’ll have to wait for an entry to short.

  • S Adams

    My thinking is SHZ is going to run again. China stocks are strong right now. The closest comparison is CHNR which has been very strong lately and is up 6%. I rebought at 7.85

  • timsykes

    just dont like the large spreads and low volume on SHZ, thats why 1 big block either way can influence prices for hours. for once, i just executed the perfect trade, for once

  • Dan

    Thats what i like to hear Tim. Nice trade, what do you think of agix today up with real good volume. Thanks Tim for your help and all you do for us.

  • NeilTheRealDeal

    wow hope you guys listened to yourselves and caught DARA today as well. what a day! I’m only virtual trading but I read this post and checked out DARA saw a break and shorted 700 at 4.41 and covered at 3.60! can’t wait to start using real money haha. is it a bad idea to hold a short position with DARA overnight? I haven’t been quite sure when it is good to hold a stock overnight and when not to.

  • Davey

    I wouldn’t hold it overnight yet, look at CEGE it was up huge and had a massive pullback on the same day, then the next day went up huge again, wait until volume drops off and downward momentum creeps in. Good trade though…

  • Davey

    I’m so pissed I missed the SHZ move but I’m in the process of moving funds to TOS, tomorrow I’ll be ready to go and DARA is in my sight.

  • Aegir

    Tim big IPO next month, VISA, what do yuo think.

  • http://coin the barber

    CAN ANYONE SAY GOODBYE TO COIN??????????? HMMM….. LETS JUST SAY I CALL THAT ONE FOR THIS BLOG. TEXT BOOK DOUBLE TOP GOING TOBE DOWN HUGE TOMORROW. TIM YOUR LUCKY TO DIDNT BET ME.. MAYBE WELL MEET IN MANHATTAN ONE DAY AND U OWE ME A DRINK.. LOL

  • http://JCUTZ5000@AOL.COM the barber

    NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM SHZ LOOKS GOOD. A LOT OF SHORTS LOOK GOOD INTO TOMORROW CAUSE MARKET IS SET FOR A DOWN DAY TOMORROW. A LITTLE WIND IN THE SAIL NEVER HURT

  • Eric T

    Does anyone ever go long on here? lol

  • timsykes

    ah COIN, 13.50 turned out to be a great short, u could take a little pain. hence the reason i prefer shorting in the afternoon where there was no pain whatsoever. gotta recognize this or have the buying power to be able to short whenever u feel like it!

  • mitil

    wow people do post comments here very quickly!!!….

  • http://JCUTZ5000@AOL.COM the barber

    ahhh.. that stuborn coin.. It finaly cracked.. ive been watching this thing patiently for a month now… but pateince pays off cause i can bet that stuborn coin will be in the red tomorrow..holding this puppy. lol

  • Al

    Tim,

    I tried shorting SHZ but Ameritrade didn’t have any shares. I shorted GRO for two reasons, 1. because of what looked like an intraday double top and 2. because I needed the action. It was a long booooring day watching GRO.

  • sonid

    broke my own discipline the same way today and didn’t wait for the crack. Gotta be around to execute the trade perfectly…..live and learn I guess. Looking into DARA for the next one.

  • Joey

    Tim…how about setting up an IRC (Chat) server? I could provide one for free…would be cool to chat with all in real time.

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com/2008/02/26/after-the-morning-rain-comes-the-afternoon-sunshine/ After The Morning Rain Comes The Afternoon Sunshine | Timothy Sykes – Stock Trader, Author, Entrepreneur

    [...] I focused all my time and energy on the two hottest microcaps, COIN and SHZ. As I detailed in this post, I screwed up COIN royally. Typical of a morning short sale. Considering the $12.40 closing price, [...]

  • timsykes

    GRO is a potential short, i lik the intraday 50 cent drops but its not negative yet and its only up 50%

  • timsykes

    no chat, too many legal issues, gotta stick to the good ole forum/comments

  • timsykes

    i’ll look at visa but too many smart people playing it, i prefer dumb competition, aka microcaps!

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com/2008/02/27/timothy-sykes-is-sssssssso-ssssssstupid/ Timothy Sykes Is Sssssssso Ssssssstupid! | Timothy Sykes – Stock Trader, Author, Entrepreneur

    [...] I covered yesterday

  • PETEKUSH

    visa is going to 1000 fast, whom ever plays it or not.
    its goin…boy it be goin!
    stony

  • PETEKUSH

    i ment 100 i hit 1 too many 0 ….but give it time it will head to 1000…to

  • PETEKUSH

    oil is the hot ticket still.
    goin to 150

  • PETEKUSH

    nice raide interview, abit blue chip boring but cool

  • http://www.myspace.com/thetraknologist traknologist

    Oil’s going over 150

  • jayzipp

    Just bought 400 shares at 3.17

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    GCI now looking like a tempting short at $4.40ish

  • tbohen

    Grrr, had my trigger point at $3 @ 11:45 and decided to wait. Oh well I’m in with you @ $3.16

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    10-15 cents aint gonna make or break this trade, its all about whether it can deliver the 50 cent/share upside

  • urbancowboy

    I’m in bitches

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    nice consolidating above the 3.10 breakout, now confirmed breakout to 3.25…acting verrrry nice, wish it wasnt already up soooo much today though!

  • tbohen

    Yeah I agree Tim, but it would be nice to be sitting up 20 cents right now :)

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    damn GCI is really tanking, another miss for me, but 2 PennyStocking DVD students nailed it, will post their emails later

  • http://www.covestor.com/mbr/peterji Peter Ji

    7000 shares FEED at 3.15…looks good so far :D

  • HopeSolo

    In at 3.16, it does suck that it’s up over 30% already, IMO, it’s gonna be hard to reach your target Tim, we’ll see.

  • dave197984

    how low do u believe GCI will go?

  • LosC305

    I agree with HopeSolo, but I got trust in Tim. It has gone up quite a bit already today…. so we’ll have to hang on and see…

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    all depends on if it can hold above $3 all afternoon…if it can then we can get a late day squeeze/morning spike tomorrow, if not we take small losses

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    oh 6 cents/share, stick a dagger in me LOL

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    cool now only 1 cent/share looks like i’m in the clear!

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    woah now i’m up 2 cents/share, should i take profits? (r u getting my point?)

  • YoungGunz

    Whoo been a while in at 3.14

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    GCI now at $4, looks liek a chose the wrong horse…for now

  • venu.gandi

    in at 3.10

  • HopeSolo

    Tim, if those comments were in response to me… I agree with your pick, I’m riding it out, all I said was it’s hard for a stock to go up > than 100% on the day when it’s already up 30% at 1pm. However if it does, even more kudos to you!

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    no my comments were in response to peter who think a 6 cent/share loss is an “ouch” (its not)

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    just like my current 8 cent/share gain merits nor eaction whatsoever except satisfcation that the stock is acting nciely

  • HopeSolo

    gotcha & agreed. C’mon feed break 3.25 already

  • Ostifari

    FIRST TIME TIM TRADE: GCI- short 700 @ 4.30, covered at 3.99. + $217. That pays for almost a year of Tim alerts on day 1…

  • amolsid

    What a day Tim. you rock man.
    Shorted GCI …$810 profit in few hours – AS

  • jamesdeantheone

    what do you think RCRC will be like towmarrow

  • Whistler2010

    bought 1k @ 3.09

  • HopeSolo

    Man, I wish 4 was here already… this is borrrrrrrrring!

  • urbancowboy

    yawn – so u holding this overnight?

  • HopeSolo

    UrbanCowboy: I agree, this is boring, it’s got a lot of volume, but the buyers/sellers are in a standoff, it’s pissing me off it’s so boring, lol, forcing me to stay at the computer.

    Check his post from 1:10pm, I imagine he’s still sticking by that.

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    boring? r u guys idiots, do u not realize its up 30% on the day with no news in a down market, this thing is holding up perrrrfectly

  • jamesdeantheone

    hi tim, i shorted RCRC at 6.812 shold i hold over night or take my loss. thanks for your help

  • HopeSolo

    No not an idiot, yes I can view a ticker, seeing as its up < 1% from when my position, when the alert went out, yes it is boring. It wouldn’t have been boring if I got in at 3 or earlier and yes I agree it’s holding up perfectly, boring isn’t necessarily a bad thing, just tired of watching it, hoping it closes above 3, that’s all.

  • jaymac21

    cut your losses already james

  • jaymac21

    Id cut my losses on a trade around 3-4%. but thats just me

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    James, considering how u feel for a morning panic, the kind u should COVEr into not short, my words are meaningless as u ignore all my trading rules

    HS, yes, its barely up but no its not boring, its a battle between longs and shorts and longs are winning, learn what goes on behind price action and u’ll understand better

  • HopeSolo

    Tim, view my post from 2:53 where I said precisely the same thing as, “battle between longs and shorts,” with, “it’s a standoff between buyers & sellers.” I’m aware of what goes on behind the price action, thanks.

  • jamesdeantheone

    ok, i am a idiot. i am new to this stuff.

  • HopeSolo

    Break 3.25, break it break it!!!!!

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    breaking 3.25 is irrelevent, even if it does, wheres it gonan go, 3.30, 3.40…tomorrow is the day my man

  • HopeSolo

    LOL i know, i’m just impatient, bad trait to have I know, I know. I’m sure tomorrow will be the day, I got no problem holding over night, it won’t work against my PDT regulations, lol.

  • YoungGunz

    Beautiful!

  • YoungGunz

    Bring on the squeeze into the close

  • HopeSolo

    Amen YoungGunz!

  • bp

    Anybody still watching CZZ? Possible re-entry into short position?

  • YoungGunz

    darn was hoping for a real strong squeeze into the close to add some conviction for tomorrow morning.

  • HopeSolo

    YoungGunz, doesn’t look likely, I mean seriously… at this point, how many shorts are still alive in FEED? Either they’re in it for the lonnnnng term or covered well before it shot up 30%

  • rassoodock

    In @ 3.18 small position, also short RCRC, smaller position..

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    completely incorrect HS, shorts were piling on in this late day and they’re the ones who need to get squeezed tomorrow morn, we all need to do our best to get this perfect strong volume breakout on as many momo traders watchlists as possible

  • YoungGunz

    There, had a little pop into the close. Hopefully we get some good buyers in the morning

  • Spit

    im in 800 at 3.21, rubbish entry.

  • HopeSolo

    Tim: I hear ya, didn’t even think of that. I’m so trained now into taking small losses, I kept thinking, who would let their losses run this large? Haven’t even though of all the people trying to short it on this break out. Thanks for that. After hours momentum looks nice at least. Hopefully no bad news overnight into the morning…

  • Spit

    Why would people try to short this on that amount of strength just on the breakout? is it in case its a fakeout?

  • venu.gandi

    GS posted double the expected earnings… just wondering how this is going to effect us… news on cnbc…

  • lazydeveloper

    I was looking for this stock to hold $3.30 by the end of the day since it would create nice support (on the sideways price action at the $3.20 range) for the morning panic. This stock fades with every down tick of the market and will quickly drop to $3.00 support if the market opens negative tomorrow. I like to have support going into the mornings and the $3.00 support is a potential 20-cent loss for those holding larger positions (since time is needed to unload). If your not planning to watch this like a hawk tomorrow then I wouldn

  • http://www.test.timothysykes.com timothysykes

    this is not up due to the market, its a technical breakout/penny stock momo play, aka perfect, gap up 10-20-30 cents and hopefulyl a morning spike, just gotta get more traders involved

  • lazydeveloper

    Thank you for the reply Tim. I am still learning and your rationale on the boards defiantly helps for future plays.

  • http://www.quarterstudios.net sebarich76

    nice after market

  • artificialwings

    Tim– do you see anything wrong with trading OPTIONS instead of actually trading the stock, so long as volume is good compared to open interest in the option? It saves a ton of $$ on commissions, absolutely limits losses, and avoids pattern day trader shit.

  • artificialwings

    nevermind about the pattern day trader thing